'Black Gold, Kindred Spirits'

Q. Tell us about the 34' strike.

Yeah right. Yes well we used to have different ones, they were all lotted into different things to do and some used to go out and get rabbits, others used to go and collect any vegetables, they used to get bread and that given to them. There was a farmer out on the Powlett River, he used to grow a lot of potatoes for himself and that, he used to allow miners to go out, those with a big family, he used to allow them to have a bag, and those with a small family would get half a bag and those single ones he'd allow them to take a quarter of a bag, if he caught any of them selling them, which some did do, he'd stop them and wouldn't allow them to take the potatoes, that's, Mr. Bolden was his name. And every strike we had he seemed to have those potatoes. A lot of other farmers and that used to give you vegetables if they had, pumpkins, and such as pumpkins and swedes. Was another farmer out at Lance Creek, he grew a lot of swedes, you could go out and get a lot of swedes and that, so they used to bring them in and issue them out behind the theatre, the Miners Theatre. Everybody, they got a certain amount to keep em going.

Q. So was it difficult?

Yeah it was a difficult thing to keep going, but you managed on it because, we used to go down the river and catch eels, as a matter of fact I'd sooner have eel than whiting me self, it's a hard thing to say. We always had plenty to do, because we had plenty where we could get out, as I say, get wood, we never had to go short of a fire or anything like that, we had plenty of wood we could cut. And I never really seen anyone that really starved because they had a way of living off the land, it was different I suppose for those in Melbourne where they had to struggle to get these things. And then after the strike was over of course, I tell ya the shops were very good, you could go down to the grocers and they'd give you anything you asked for and then they allowed ya, you had to pay it off so much when you got ya pay, so much a fortnight, if it was only 2 or 3 shillings, as long as you made an attempt to pay it, they were happy. And that applied to all strikes, never knocked you back. And I know even old Charlie Tabenar at the pub, you could go in there and he'd never let you go by without, you had a pot of beer, or a couple of pots. A beer which you didn't have to pay, but outside of that I don't think there's a great deal I can carry on from there, we went back to work and just settled down again and then of course you'd have another strike. Somebody would get the sack, of course that was an annual occasion, where they want the railway trucks for the wheat, to cart the wheat from the Mallee and that. And what they'd do, they'd put a person off at the mine, and as soon as they did, the miners downed tools, went home, and they'd take the trucks off to the Mallee and when they'd finished carting the wheat they'd put the chap back on whoever it was and away you'd go again, so a lot of the strikes were blamed for, through the men that too, in the paper they used to say, oh Wonthaggi's out on strike, but they never ever stopped to think that the person that got put off though, always stuck together and those never stopped to think they wanted the Railway trucks for the wheat. And then coming back, going through onto the war periods. Through the war periods they never lost a shift, they worked right through the war period and people started to realise then that it wasn't the miners that was coming out on strike, it was the, they got a letter of thanks from the way they carried on their work and everything like that. And the people realised then we were getting blamed for a lot of things we really didn't have anything to do with.

Q. So the miners got quite a bad deal from the Government?

We got the bad deal yes, it was from the Railways because it was a Railways concern and that's where the bad turn come in because our manager, he was very hard to get on with and of course, at one stage they wanted to put a stack on the Power House and to do that they couldn't do it while the mine was working, so what they do, they sack a miner, out goes the mine in sympathy to the one who is put off and as soon as they got that in a couple months or a month after, they around and put that chap on again and away they went, they had the new stack up. Things like that they couldn't manage so they used to take it out on the miners to, to get these things done.

Q. How did the Depression affect Wonthaggi?

The Depression did affect Wonthaggi because their was a terrible a lot of people out of work and most of those people out of work at the time they had to do a couple of days work for the Depression. And what they got was a voucher, you never got any money for that work. A married man with a child, the purse voucher was only around about 17 and 6 and that allowed ya to take it to the grocers shop and get 17 and 6 worth of groceries on that voucher. And that voucher, eventually they came in where they decided to pay so much and you worked 2 and a half days for one pound 10 and 6, and then of course quite a few went into the army……ah they went in there, it was voluntary, they used to train themselves and they were in for so long and that and then of course when the war broke out in 39, in 1937 we had the explosion, I'll go back to that, I think it's interesting to know that in 1931, and it's a thing I'm very amazed of, why it's not brought up, especially in the museum at the mine and things like that, where there was 4 killed in 31' due to an explosion at 20 shaft, then you come on to 1937, where 13 lost their lives in another explosion at 20 shaft and then at the same time which made it hard for a lot of people was the paralysis breaking out in 37', quite a few in Wonthaggi had it, well, I had a boy myself who had it.(upset)

So anyrate, you right now? Anyrate what I done I give the mine away for a bit over 12 months for the simple reason he was down the cottage by the sea……it used to take 2 days from here to go down, you went down one day and come back the next. At that time it wasn't so much, but it was pricey for us at the time at 10 shillings a trip to Melbourne, then you had to get on a boat to go to Queenscliff, and you caught that back and you stopped in Melbourne overnight and then back again ready for work on the Monday, so it was. Then of course in 1939 it come when the war broke out, and then after the war broke out, well I don't think you found anybody unemployed in the town because there was money just come from everywhere, work was available everywhere, they put more into the mine and that's when they kicked right on till they had that fire. They had a fire over at Kirrak in one section underground but it wasn't serious, because they could, it was closed down over a period, through the war period at that time they had fire but they sealed it off and smothered it out, so there was really no work lost through that at all. But that was underground and when, when they had that there fire at Kirrak in the engine room, well nobody lost a shift there because what they done they put you over to Western Area and put 3 men in a bord, in a party, which that swallowed up the men till they got the……..not the winch room…….I'm trying to think the winder, they got the winder that used to be over at 20 and put it up at Kirrak and that done the job then right up till the time they closed down, which was the last mine. And then after that it was sold and went over to Tasmania, so I think it's still operating in Tasmania.

Q. Sad to see the mine close?

Yes. I did have, finished up I was shot firing in the section and the last day, the last shift and that it was a sad thing, because it was practically the thing you grew up in, you started when you were 14 and you go through them jobs and it's on me, you know what I mean, if they had of turned around and kept them going I think we'd still be there, or when of course when that closed, I went into Eastern Area where we opened that as a private, I went in there and stopped just on 2 and a half to 3 years there before I retired all together. But outside of that I was sorry to see it go meself.

Q. Do you remember dirt fines?

Oh yes, we always had plenty of those , we used to have one, one of ya mates would be picking the dirt out while you was filling in the skip and you used to change them around. We had a dirt fine at one time where it was just on 17 dollars and we were working, this was at Western Area, we were working in this particular place we happened to be not far from the shaft. My mate of course, Freddie Street, and we were getting these dirt fines and dirt fines and we were on full measurement and being on full measurement meant being on clean coal, that was just on 3 foot of coal. So anyrate, I went over to the weighbridge and said to the chap, I said, "Listen, get us a sample of that dirt fine we got", so they brought over just about half a sugar bag. And I had a look at it and thought geez that's not our dirt at all. So I went straight into the office, the manager's office there at Western Area, and I turned around and I said, "What's this caper", and he's got his books and everything on the table and he's starting to give orders to his deputy and I just tipped it on the table, and said, "This has got nothing to do with us, where is our 17 dollars we want that returned, we want it in our pay next week." And just as I said that, our deputy came along and he turned around and he says, I said to him "Listen Todd", Todd Brown his name was, I said, "Listen Todd we haven't got this dirt in our bord." He had a look and he said, "No" he said, "Yous were on clean measurement." So anyrate I says, straight out then, "Well, make sure that 17 dollars" I said, "... is in the pay next week.", and with that I turned around and walked out. And anyrate, the manager, Robinson he turned around and said, "Hey come and clean up this mess", I said, "You Sit on your backside all day, I'm a contract worker so I've got to go and earn my money". With that I just went straight over, went down the mine, left him to it. There's another little incident if you want me to bring it up too, is when you had a cavil, a cavil is every 3 months, when you change from one place to the other, they elect a chap for the pit committee, so we caviled over to 20 shaft. And anyrate I was elected on the pit committee, so I went. I was in getting changed and one of the miners come in and said, "Hey, what are you going to do about Sammy Comford", I says, "What about Sammy Comford". Ah he said, "He's, Dixie sent him home, he says because he was off Friday", he had a sick note in at anyrate and Burnsie wouldn't accept it. So I said, "All right then", I said, so anyrate I went out and I called Sammy Comford back And while he's walking back I went over to the mine, I told the platman, I said, "Don't let none of you miners go down below", and I told the platman not to run the shaft, the cage until I had a talk to Dixie or Sammy Comford. So anyrate after having a talk to Dixie he said, "No", he said, "He's got to go home". I said, "Who said?", he said, "Jimmy Byrns". Well I said, "Listen can I use that phone, I'll ring up the union office". I said, "I want to ring Mr.Brown our secretary", he said, "No you cannot use the phone", well I said "All right then. So if that's the case it's going to take me a long while to walk from 20 shaft," I said, "...to the union office, then I've gotta walk back". So I said, "That'll mean your men won't be at work", he said, "They're at work already" . I said, "You go over to the mine and have a look. Well when he went over there, he seen them all sitting down waiting for me to go back. Anyrate he turned round and he soon gave the bloke his token and told him to get down below. Cause otherwise there wouldn't have been any work till I'd got back from the office if I had to walk in. So anyrate he soon give him his time token and he started work. But they're the things you know, it's unnecessary because a doctor gives you a sick notice and I can't see why a manager should be able to stop and say you're not going to get it and not get paid for it, you don't write them out yourself. But anyrate that went all right.

Q. So there was a lot of trouble with management then?

Oh yes. You always, you had a lot of trouble, miners got blamed for anything. Same, same, we didn't get tea roughly down until it was, ah say 15 years before it was closed, if it was that long. And we used to have to pay for the tea, you'd go and pay your stump, that's your union and they'd take, you'd pay so much for tea money, the only thing they never charged you for was the water. They used to have a bloke there to make it and send it down to you and of course you're tea, I've seen it there at times the miners always liked joking and that and the wheelers, the one that brings the tea in, so he was a bit late and one of the miners said something so he just packed it up and tipped it out and went home, that's a wheeler you see, they get upset at times, you don't blame then because everyone's on contract, they're working like hell to get their money, cause if you were in a bad bord, well you didn't worry so much because you was on a minimum wage, but when you could make money you had to get out and do it. And that was the hard part if you had to wait on skips. I've seen that we poked a little bit of fuse in a cap, in the powder, a little piece of fuse and the wheeler, where's the skips? He's taking them somewhere else, so what we done we charged up holes over in Western Area, we threw one of these with no cap in it, just the fuse, couldn't go off. We threw it and he was off for his life and we had that many skips we couldn't move for them, he kept bringing them and bringing them, we had nowhere to put them. So I'll never forget that bloke the way he went, he never stopped, the others started to scream for skips then. Things like that you had to do, another time we were working in a place in Western Area and I was working with my brother George, and anyrate we were working up in the scrapper. And we were going up like that and the other miner Tullio Moresco, then they're going down hill and the deputy come in, I says, "Listen" I said, "How far we gotta go through to brake through into the other workings?" Ah he said, "You'd have 20 feet or more yet", and they're supposed to have a look at the plans and you know, notify you when you're close so. That's all right, so we fire a shot and what happens, it's full of water. So when we broke through the water just come and through the water just come and took the coal out of our race and we went down, down into the other bord to the other blokes' bord and they're come out in water half way up their waist still pouring in. So it closed their bord off altogether.

Q. What was the worst mine?

The worst mine, well the conditions, the worst conditions I'll tell you, was the Western Area. Western Area was one where you never had to go safety, you could smoke, you had your carbide lamp which was good to your eyes and you were working in 16 inches of coal, but you had nearly 4 or 5 inches of water you were laying in. So we had the deputy come in one time, you took 3 changes of clothes down. You had lunch time when you had your crib you changed and you changed to come up and the change you had when you went down. Anyrate I said to the deputy what about extra wet pay, you know, you were given your wet pay, it was only about 2 and 6 or something like that a shift, 1 and 6. He said oh its got to be coming through the roof. I said, "Oh that's all right then don't worry about it." So the next day I said to me mate, he was a probationer, which we used to sign a probationer on and learn them, they were with you for 2 years. And I said to him, "Listen" I said, "I'll get the wheeler, as soon as the wheeler yells out the deputy's coming", I said, "Get your shovel full of water and throw it into the roof", and of course we both, one on each side, you're working a 40 foot coal face, and we do that. And when the deputy come we said listen what about extra wet pay, look at that coming through the roof, so we got it, that extra wet pay. And that young chappy didn't fill in his time with me at the mine because there was work and a lot of miners went up to Cooma to get on that job up there and he finished up he got killed up there at, the shaft or something broke and the cage fell down the shaft and he's the one that got killed. He wasn't a bad little worker, although he was an Italian, he was very good. But we got our wet pay, but the things you had to do to get that little bit extra. Now what are we going onto?

Q. About the gas in the mine?

Yeah when you get the report from your examiner you read it, then you go down and of course and eventually you got the report from the gas, well you go and you test it and if you find the gas there and that, well if it's bad, what you do, you've got to make out a report then to your shift, but you've also got to clear that gas. So what you do, you go ahead, once you find it you take your light out steady, put in; in where the ventilation is, then you go and you take the men out that's working ahead of that area and bring them out and of course they go on shift work or anything because they're contract workers, you can't let them sit down and lose money. And then you've got to ring up and get the brattice down, which is the main important thing for clearing gas. And you get your brattice down, if it's up in the roof or if it's on a sideway you've got to get the air in there, so you've got to blcock off the air from one place to bring it around to another and speed up your fans. And once you get that brattice up if it's in the roof, in the hole, you build a cradle, put your brattice upright into the hole about 8 or l0 inches off the roof and block the tunnel off and the air will all go up that brattice, it can't go through it, it goes up and it brings back down the gas for the simple reason is, methane gas is lighter than air, or half as light as air, so therefore, it'll push with the air or it'll travel above the air and thats how it gets away from them, that's when it gets into a hole it'll go up there where your air is forced straight through, the air don't get much of a chance to get up there and get that gas down from the hole. And that of course, once you've cleared it, you've got to test once again and the men can go back to work after you get it all cleared.

Q. What is black damp?

Yes and then you've got another one what they call a black damp. Now a black damp is a gas that's on the fall, where it's wet and that and there's no ventilation getting, very little ventilation getting through if any. And the effects of that is if you were working, crawl into it, you start to get giddy and you'll get a headache Well you don't stop there at all, you get out because you know there's something wrong, if you've got a light there's, you put the light on the floor, it'll put it out, you can't keep nothing lit. And the simple reason why that is, because there's no oxygen there, and that's what puts everything out. So you clear that the same way by brattice and getting the air through those and that can happen in that there bord you seen, what we've got now, but there's plenty of ventilation to drive it. Western Area where it's wet and that in the corners, well that's where you get it, which we ran into some over at 20 shaft. We were working in a coal there that was round about 4 foot high and I was working up in the top, and we were doing bottom brushing which you take the stone out the bottom and ya coal's up above ya, 4 foot 6 brushing, and we're doing the bottom brushing and I, it was up in my place, I was getting these headaches and as soon as I hit the fresh air and I was as giddy as anything, nearly fainting. So I said to me mate, an Italian chap I was working with, I says 'Hey mate go up there and see how that affects you up there," cause I had a good heap of coal there. Anyrate he went up, he didn't stop up there too long, he was out and I said, "How was it?", "Oh not bad", he said. Well I said, "I'll swap you sides", he said, "Not in your life", So we sent for the deputy, Alan Thompson was the deputy at the time, and he came down and of course when they tested it was the black damp, so they closed that section down. So we were lucky enough, we got put in another bord, a better bord with plenty of air over at 20 shaft. And the gun party, that was the Banksiers, they were always big money getters, and always got the run on good bords, they put them over to Western Area and they only filled one skip a shift because the coal was that low and when they put them in one of the best bords, there was in Western Area when they only filled one skip and they closed that bord down and when the Cavil came they turned around, the management turned around and put it back in the Cavil. So anyrate I happened to be going through the Cavil sheet and I said to the Union, Eddie Harmer it was as a matter of a fact, I said, "Eddie what's the strength of this?" And he said, "What Jim?", I said, "They've got that number where Banksie only filled one skip, they took him out and closed it down, why have they got it in this cavil?" And he said, "Didn't know that". So anyrate Eddie went in and we forced them to close that down, no-one got in there to work. You see it just shows how you had to be on your toes with some of the things.

Q. You were saying how gas was so bad that you could light it?

Yeah well that's. You could be walking down below in 18 and that and the gas could be in the airway, where ya walking down the tunnel and you can be there and all of a sudden if ya got a pit lamp on , which them days you did have your pit lamp before the safety come in, the flame, you'd see the flame ahead of you, burning about half a chain away and it would take the flame from ya lamp and burn that streak of gas out. And many times I say in the bord, well you just put the lamp on the tample stick and just burnt it out, but once it went safety it was all different all together, then you never done it.

Q. Why do you think the 37 explosion happened?

Well that's a thing I don't think, I can only give you my opinion on this, I don't think the truth ever come out on that., honestly I don't. I myself have put it back to the management, because there's two fans and one's a big fan, the big fan wasn't running that time when the men was off work. Now the area over at 20 shaft, it was a big area for a small fan to carry the air through which is practically impossible. And of course whether there was a spark caused by them men down there or whether they lit a cigarette that's the thing that come up, but I think if you had of had the big fan, I don't think there would necessarily been an explosion. I think there'd be enough air out of the big fan to take it away. But of course that's a thing, it was a very tight inquiry and I don't think there was any miners to my knowledge which was ever asked any questions on the, anything about it, because they wouldn't be there to give, because the explosion, they were on strike at the time, they were having a meeting that morning. But honestly I think, that if the big fan had of been going it could have saved a lot of, that's only my own opinion of course I could be wrong. It's a tragedy for the town, too-right. A big tragedy because we were having, just going to start a meeting at the Theatre at 10 o 'clock when they phoned up to say the explosion ion and that well there was no meeting because everybody, the rescue and that, they just rushed straight away down to the rescue station for their gear. They were only allowed to work a certain time, roughly half an hour and then they had to come up and then another lot went down. And it was very hard because when that explosion went off it filled the shaft up too, and they had to get that stone down, and I give more credit to Johnson than I did to McLeish on that job, the wrong man got the praise there, I think Johnson should have been the man that really got the praise on that explosion, because he never feared of going down or not.

Q. What did you think about the spirit of Wonthaggi?

Well, Wonthaggi was a very good town right through, the people here, everybody was welcome. And I say for instance, if you had an argument or anything, like that in the hotel and that, all right if it come to blew you walked out the two of you's, went over near the station, you had ya blew, shook hands, best man won, shook hands, you come back and you' d you drink together. You'd never see that go on today, there seems to be a different type, as the generations go they seem to hold a grudge on it. The town, they all, what I mean is, there was always somebody there to help ya. And, just one happy lot and going back years ago they always had something to do. You had that many parades, you had the Caledonian parade, they used to parade the Street, decorate. You had the co-operative picnic, you had the Caledonian, used to run a picnic, the Workman's club had picnics and they used to hire a train and go down to Kilcunda, hold all the sports and running and all that down there. So the people really got on well together. And I did find out too, with the Italians and that they were very good. If ya, even when ya working in the mine and that, I had to bring that in and you wanted a lift of anything, timber or anything like that, if it was a bit heavy for two of yous, they'd turn around, you'd just go around the corner arid yell, 'Hey what about giving us a lift", and they'd be around straight away. And they were very good unionists, we had no trouble with anything, they'd stop right out until everything was cleared up. And they were a very good lot right from the old ones up to the new ones that came into the mines

Q. The mines were dangerous?

Yes well, as I say in that there explosion even the deputies that were killed in that, there were some terrific deputies, and of course there was one or two that wasn't as good. But the likes of Hafe Ferry, and them chaps that was killed in that, well they were, they'd try and help a miner, they wouldn't, if couldn't make a wage and they'd give you some, they'd put you onto brushing, such as stone or anything and they'd try to build you up, where another deputy would come along and he'd try to cut you down. And the only way we used to catch up with them blokes is put 2 or 3 yards of tape around ya elbow and hold it like that so they couldn't see it, so when they came on the next time they couldn't understand how they made a mistake in the measurements, it didn't travel so far this time, but we'd get paid, one pay and then next one we'll wasn't so bad, you could allow a little for it. But what I mean, they were cunning and the miners got cunning too, they had to be to keep up with em. A bit of both, it cut both ways. I can remember one time when I was working at Western Area, we had a tong set up in the roof and no side timber was necessary. And the manager came along and, Bill Roby, and he had a mob of tech girls with him, showing them around. And anyrate, he walked under this here set of timber for nearly 2 months to..... a tong is only a piece of timber you put in the roof and you know, the pressures, the side pressures come into it and you wedge it up and that holds it there. Now he walked under that for 2 months and when he brought the girls down there he said, "I want to see a set of timber up here." Well I turned around and said, "Just because you've got some petticoat with ya", I said, "You don't want to worry about that , you walked under it for 2 months and you haven't said anything about it, so why the big occasion today?" And anyrate it was still, when that section was worked out, that timber was still there. It was never ever changed. Little digs like that they'd have at ya, you know, you always come back on em. But even, I was gonna say, I'd like to bring Tommy Johnson into this if you don't mind, he's a chap that came straight out of college to Wonthaggi. And he was to be an undermanager to Johnny McLeish. And when that chap got down and got to know the miners, he walked in, he'd pick the worst place in the mine and he'd ask ya if he could work a shift with ya, and he'd come in the next day ready to work. And that man I'd say put in all round from the time he was manager, it would be 18 months to 2 years, he'd work and he'd work practical because he reckons that practical was better than theory anytime which I think proves itself. Coming out and managing a mine from a college and then you worked in there, you know like we have for so many years and that. Well he was that keen he got in and worked and he could understand men, men got on well with him. And the same, well Jimmy Byrns, with Jimmy Byrns, everybody got on with Jimmy because they never took that great deal notice of him. He was a local, he worked in the mine, I don't think, you know what I mean, he, whether he was a mine manager or not well that's not for me to say, but he was the mine manager, if he'd say do this and do that, once he turned his back we never worried about it. So you never heard anymore about it, so it's different. But if Tommy Johnson asked you to do a thing you'd do it because you knew you were going to be treated right and he appreciated it. And the miners appreciated him too for the same reason.

Q. What about McLeish?

We, Johnny McLeish, Johnny McLeish had a say'in, I'll give you a little joke if you don't mind, I've got a stutter though to explain it to you. There was a chap here by the name Plant and Plant, he used to stutter so anyrate he went down to McLeish to get a job and he said, "J. J. J. J. J. Johnny, I.I.I.I've come d.d.d.d.down to g.g.g.g.get a job", and McLeish turns around and says, "Listen Planty, as long as the grass grew up there on them poppet legs I wouldn't give you a And Planty turned round, he says, "W.w.w.w.w.well it's like this is one MMMM. Mac, I would'nt, I wouldn't bloody well ask ya", he says, ". …if the cows were up there eating it off." So there's... there was quite a lot you know put on the (pal )'? Another time they had a picnic put on down at Kilcunda went down on the train, we had our picnic and the bloke that had the Kilcunda pub that time stuttered. Anyrate, Planty stuttered, he says, "W.w.w.w.what do you want?" the publican said, and Planty said, "I. I. I. I w. w. w. want a pot of beer." And with that the Pubby jumped over the bar and jobbed him, cause he reckoned he was mimicking him.

Q. Do you remember what the town was like in the early days'?

Well, I'll tell ya the town was on the late shopping and that it was horse and jinkers, you never seen, no cars in them days, a lot of walking done and then of course push bikes, but mostly horse and jinkers. And they used to have rails where you'd tie your horse up alongside the pub and there was three or four water troughs in the street. And they had livery stables where you could drive ya horse in and you give em 18 pence, that's 1 and 6 and you get a feed for the horse, of chaff, while you went and done ya shopping. And also on a Friday night we'd have, oh well there was one chap who worked in the mine used to convert nearly everybody where he was working. And going back to 18 shaft, he was working down there, a chap named Ernie Ell, anyrate he, he was in the Salvation Army and he got a bit of strife there apparently he got out. So he decided his own, start on his own. So he used to convert the blokes down there to get a, the boys that get converted got a bible off him. And one time he was in where the roof was very bad and one of his mates said, "Hey you want to get out of that Ernie that stone will come down." And he said, "The good Lord won't let that stone fall" he said "The good Lord will not let that stone come on me", and just as he walked out the stone fell down. And the same bloke, he got a church out, down Glenforbs, the people up there and he went on well. But had to laugh at him one time, you could buy cheap clothes around the town and he was standing out on, he used to stand on the silent cop on the corner of Graham Street and McBride Avenue. And he was praying away there and it was raining, raining cats and dogs. And anyrate while he was praying you could see his trousers, he had on they was shrinking with the wet, they were coming above his boots. And he's saying the good Lord would not let me get wet, but at the same time the legs of his trousers was creeping up with the shrinking, so I don't know what material he had in those. But in the town yes it was that way, you could go down for 2 pound, 2 pound 10 and you'd get a tailor made suit, all hand sewn and by Frank Hartly and he employed the local girls to do all the work. And you got the material there….and anyrate you got these things cheap, then you'd go to another place where'd you turn around and pay 1 pound 19 for a suit and they used to put a packet of cigarettes in ya pocket so. And haircuts, you'd go and get a haircut, and you'd get a haircut for 9 pence, which is a big thing now, I think it's 7 or 8 dollars. I'm lucky I don't have to pay that.

Q. What about falls of stone?

Yeah well, work over at 20 shaft there and there was 2 bords up in what they call a 2 set jig. We had a wheeler over there he was wheeling away from us with a horse. Well anyrate he missed a sprag going down the slant and of course the skips come off the road and it hit the timber and brought stone down, we had a fall of stone come down over the horse. And it buried the horse, the only thing it had sticking out was its ears and that out of the rock fall. So anyrate the wheeler came screaming up to us and we went down and worked on, there was 4 miners. And after we cleared the horse, some of the rock, a big size too and after we cleared the horse and got it out, of course sent for the vet and the vet come over and that and the horse was you know, it was just skinned here and there with the fall. Anyrate the vet said it would be better to keep it working because it would keep the stiffness out of it, if got stiff and that it wouldn't be able to work. So they worked that horse. Well then, another time we were coming out and commin down the slant, the wheeler and the horse just got past over a certain place and there was 4 or 5 miners coming down the back when the, we had another fall in, fairly big fall, and of course we're on one side and anyrate we started to clear the stone away, we cleared it away roughly 2 feet by 2 feet, so we could just crawl through to manage to prop up and went over near the side where it was pretty solid on one side and we cleared a passage way till we got through 2 by 2 feet. We had to leave our lunch bag and that behind because anything hook on the stone could bring it down on ya. So that was one, we got over that one. Then going back a few years, later at Kirrak we were working in a place there and I was working with an Italian chap and we used to have a part, the coal was pretty high, it was 7 foot high and there was a partin in it, so we used to put a, take the half out and put a prop under the other. And hold it up until we put the rails in and we used to drop it down on the skip, the lot. Where I was working on the side, it was a bit narrow and that and a piece of the coal cane out of the top and anyrate I couldn't get back and of course it hit me on the leg and put a split down me leg. Course I couldn't tell you what the Italian was gonna do, of course they reckon there's plenty of ammonia in it and you can guess, he's gonna.....on me leg, ya see. I don't know how to put this because seems... pee on me leg to, for the ammonia which is a great thing, they say. Outside of that I've been very lucky, I've had fall of coal, we were working another places, where the coal was very easy, it was picking and you only had a bit of iron stone on the bottom. And we'd just done the brushing and packed the brushing away and got in with the borer to just give it, I was only gonna bore a six inch hole and no sooner had I started the borer the face of the coal comes down and crushed that hand. But outside of that I was lucky and that, and I worked on quite a lot of falls, big falls where timber like such as pitching and bridging sets you had to put up which you don't see, misfortunate that we haven't got them down there so people could see what we're talking about. But they are a way 'ya going through a lot of loose stone and that, and by using a pitching set where you put a point on one end and you put two sets one above the other and you put ya pitching slab in and you just get tip and pick a little bit out and the other one will stand there with a hammer and hit it and when you get that in you put the next one, the next one till you get a row of course and once you get a row of course you just go in underneath then and keep pickin and one's drivin and you keep going from one to the other. And that allows the stone that's up above ya then to roll over onto the timber and make it safer for ya. But work like that, as I say, it's, you get that used to it and it don't seem to worry ya. Only time it ever worried me so much in the mine was if you didn't see the rats. When you went down to work first, first thing you used to look for is to see if there's any rats about. if the rats were there it's good, if they wasn't you worried. And you know you'd seem to get the feeling there was something wrong because the rats were running around all the time in there and they'd give you good warning. And if it wasn't for them I think there would have been a lot more lives lost. The sane thing applies with a horse, if you're wheeling and your commin out of a, along the road on heading with the horse and the horse stops you never force him to go through, those horses, unhook em and get em back because you'll get a fall of stone within a short tine. They seemed to have instinct too that something's wrong. So they're a good warning for ya. But when you seen the rats just movin well it'd give ya time to go and check and see why they're movin out, and if you seen any timber and that breaking and that well it'd give ya a chance to put up another set of timber. but when ya see the rats running off well that's when you don't worry about going back and checking you keep out, because that's when you've got the danger. And the same thing applies on the, taking out high pillars. Like when ya taking out pillars and that you've got all the coal taken out around em and your pillars, roughly 99 square feet, and ya taken it out in lifts of 12 to 15 feet at the time of the scrapper. And as you take more lifts off it starts to work and the workin of that there ground, that's the roof above ya, it's like thunder miles away, you can just hear it and it's working from the top down. But when it gradually gets right down, right in and it starts rockin everything well that's when you get out, you don't, you might get the last lift of coal out or you might lose it, you mightn't get it out, just get time to get ya tools and that out before it all comes down. And when they, those falls comedown, the draft it creates just about knock ya over, you can be standing down in the back lane and the draft was that great of air that it just about knock ya over, the force of it, when it come down. And sometimes it would be like loud thunder then all of a sudden it'll stop and the ground steadies and you can keep going back workin on it. So it's sorts of things, you work mostly with ya ears and ya eyes and what really makes, what I didn't like so much was about when we had to go safety with those lamps we used, because with the carbide lamp, the naked light, you're layin down under places and they light all around ya, just like a light in the room, but once you've got those other lights on they're just like a torch and ya like a chook picking up wheat because ya turn your head all the time to, trying to watch the roof out of the corner of your eye to see that it's all right and watching what ya doing on the coal. Where with the other light you only got a get, corner of your eye and you see a bit of stone come down, well ya straight out and get ya timber and get it up, which gives you better warning than the straight out lights do. They were a battery light and I think the battery lights were a ruination to a lot of miners' eyes, like me own. Cause at times, we were working in a 4 foot seam of coal and that there coal went yellow. Just changed colour, go yellow and that's because you've got a bad light, well ya turned the light off and sat in the dark till you got your eye sight back to pick ya coal up. Things like that which never done your eyes any good.

Q. Do you remember the Union Theatre?

Yes, the Union Theatre, the old Union Theatre, I should do, I drank a lot of beer in it. We used to have our mates and that there. Yes I can remember the Union Theatre in 1924 when they built it and them times in 1924 I was going to school, just ready to leave school at the time. No it wasn't, I was going to school that's right, 10 years old. And we used to go and pick up beer bottles and to go to the pictures, they had pictures Saturday and Sunday night. We had 3 picture theatres here in Wonthaggi and we were the second ones to get the talkies. And we used to go and pick up these beer bottles to get sixpence a dozen you got, to go into the pictures, which of course was sixpence. And we always had a second hand dealer in the town that bought em off as, so that's how in them days we got our money to go to the pictures. But the first picture I ever seen was 'Charlie Chaplin and the Kid' and that was a silent, in the silent days of course you read what came on the screens. And the first talking picture was down at where the factory's closed down now, that used to be what was called the Soldiers Theatre and that was 'Old Arizona'. I just can't think who was in it, na I couldn't tell ya, a lot of singing and that there was, it was a very good picture, that was a talkie.. Then the Theatre, our theatre went into the talkie's and then the other theatre in McBride Avenue, well they used to show pictures and have dances there, they called that the Cairo. Yes you could sit up in the peanut gallery and watch pictures if you didn't want to dance and that's where a lot of miners, people around the town learned to dance, because a bloke by the name of Johnny Wells and his two sisters taught dancing there. And if you got tired of that, of course you had ya pictures. So the town was pretty right for pictures and as far as the hotel, well you had three hotels in the town, plus two clubs. And then of course you had another hotel in South Dudley which is only half, quarter of a mile, half a mile out of the town, so there was plenty of hotels and that for entertainment if you wanted it.

Q. What about housing, was housing a problem in Wonthaggi?

Well not really, housing, now going back when I first got married I could have brought a house in Wonthaggi for 200 pounds, a 3 room house, got it built, all I had to do, in them days going back early you could buy blocks and pay it off at a shilling a week, 5 pound for a block and you could pay em off at a shilling or 2 bob a week. And it wasn't too bad at all the housing, after they got going no-one lived in tents, but there was only one person I know who carried on in tents by the name of Fords and of course they had a big family, roughly 18, and of course every year one was born and they used to say the new models out, so. It's the Ford models. But the first car I ever can remember even in Wonthaggi, well the first, the first truck was a solid tyre truck, was Elliot May had, as Patty Web had trucks too but not with the solid tyres and they used to chart the mill logs and that down to the mill at the mine office, down at 5, that's McBride Tunnel there. And the other cars were the T-Model Fords that came out, there was about 3 of them in the town. And after those of course they started to get more plentiful, well gradually push bikes came in and horse went out and you could hire a push bike Friday night for 2 and 6 and as long as its back in there Monday morning that's all you paid for, Friday night till Monday morning, 2 and 6, So we used to go to Korrumburra, ride them up to Korrumburra, Leongatha to a dance, we'd go up late on Friday night and comeback Sunday night. As you see some of those felt hats over there at the mine, well they were borrowed, in the early days we used to borrow em at the dance and get one to fit ya and then leave an hour before the dance was over and you had a hat to work, cut the brim off and go to work in it.

Q. Didn't you say they had a Kilcunda picnic?

Kilcunda yes, the Kilcunda picnic as I say you had quite a lot at Kilcunda from the different clubs, the Workman's Club, the Co-operative Store, the Caledonian, all went down, which we brought that on the shore at Kilcunda (?), a very good day down there. Used to get into the old train, cattle trucks and away you went, very good. We used to hire them pretty cheap from the Railways at the time, they were good days them days. I can remember when I was a boy and me father, his wages for a fortnight was 5 pound. Now there was 10 of us in the family, of course the elder brother when he got a job and when I was around about going onto 12 I went and got a job. My job was milking cows and I was getting about 10 bob a week and me keep and a horse to ride to school. And then when I was 13, I finished up, I got a pound a week and me keep, but out of that pound a week, people go crook and screaming about tax, we were paying sixpence then, I was paying sixpence out of the pound for tax, they used to keep out, so I don't know what they go crook at now when you back to 1927 and them times, it's, what I mean you didn't have the wages then to what you do now, 2 dollars a week and you paid sixpence tax, that's 6 cents.

Q. The miners always got the worst?

Well they got the worst yeah, well up till that there sit down strike at Korrumburra, the mines were terrible in 35', terrible conditions, and you were fighting and fighting all the time and didn't seem to get anywhere till Korrumburra won that strike, which did open Eastern Area for us admittedly for tourists (talking about movie Strikebound, which re-opened Eastern Area in the 1980's) but that's when the conditions started for the mines then, was what Watty Doig and Joe Bell and all then done, it was a great thing. Not only that, those rates that came in at that time it wasn't only the miners it went to the other unions, it helped the other unions also. So it was a good thing from 35' on, things started to lift in the mine.

Q. So the Wonthaggi union was pretty important?

The Wonthaggi Union was one of the strongest unions, I can say in Australia, as a matter of a fact we were stronger than what they were in Sydney and New South Wales our union, itself. It was a very powerful union. Oh yeah, if there was a strike in New South Wales you always had a levy here, and if we had a strike here there was a levy coming from there, so they were always hopping in and helping one another on these levies. And it made a big difference, that's how ya started in the finish to get strike pays, but at times the Government was gonna take the money off us because we were a communist mob at the time and the strike pay and that, they had police there to get it, in plain clothes and that, but we were always a step ahead of them because a couple of the boys would have 2 empty sacks and bags and they'd jump on the train and away they'd go down to Melbourne, they go into the pub, have a couple of beers, then they'd get on the train at night and they'd still have their empty bags and that, while they're getting the strike pay here, the plain clothes was following these 2 with the empty bags. So they never ever got any money off us like they did off the Ironworkers and they closed down on them. Although we did have one of our real fighters there Idris Williams, he did go into jail and that, well put quite a few in at that time, from the unions. But Wonthaggi I don't think in my own mind would have went ahead without em, honestly, the likes of Eddie Harmer and Watty Doig and George Bell, Idris Williams, you could go right through and through, Cocky Farmer and you couldn't get a better lot to lead a union in them times, they were real good, made life worth living.

Q. Anything else you want to say just to finish off?

Well, not really as I say, the only thing I can say is I enjoy going over to Eastern Area and the reason why I do that is, is, why I'm crook about on the winch, you don't get the chance to meet the people you like to meet, seeing you done a lot of work down there, and you see the people come up smiling, that's ya day, that does it, that makes ya day. But outside of that I don't think I've got anymore to say.

END OF INTERVIEW
Date: September 1988